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Re: PTO clutch|1489136006|Diggerdeano|xx||Inside on the drive tube are two sets of splines one set engages drive from the gearbox layshaft the other set of splines engages the pto both splines are on the one tube at a set distance apart so one set engages first this being hyds and as the tube slides further along the pto splines engage .im wondering if it been run run low on oil and the drive tube has siezed on the pto shaft or its simply stuck because theres nothing else that can prevent the tube from moving .if you take the tombstone off theres no springs to fly of or anything like that its a simple sett up inside . ||

Re: PTO clutch|1489158013|atknut|xx||Yeah, I was staring at the drawing for a while an figured the same thing.<br><br>Except when the tractor is running, I can "feel" the splines start to engage. (but if I push it further, they just grind) That's kind of why I was thinking the clutch was stuck and not disengaging. And the shaft does appear to move.<br><br>If I can just get the hyd and pto in gear, maybe I can free the clutch up.<br><br>But, maybe I have to take the tombstone off afterall.... It would be good to clean the hyd filter anyway.|1489158152|atknut

Re: PTO clutch|1489169947|Diggerdeano|xx||its whats stopping the tube from sliding on the shaft that has me thinking its stuck for some reason ,unless a piece of spline has chipped off and jammed up inside the tube either way i can see the backend coming off to fix it .||

Re: PTO clutch|1489175031|rickcobley|xx||Hi, If the hydraulic casting has been put back without the correct shims under the pto bearing mount then a burr is developed where the pto butts against the shaft in the gearbox that drives it. This will prevent the pto being engaged!<br><br>Regards Rick Cobley ||

Re: PTO clutch|1489175331|Diggerdeano|xx||hi rick that could well the case, either way it still means taking the rear off and having good look .||

Re: PTO clutch|1489629936|atknut|xx||So I'm part way there...I'm ready to pull all the hyd unit bolts out and give it a whirl. The manual says there's some threaded holes to drive a bolt into to help separate the unit. It also talks about some long bolts to put in somewhere to keep the unit steady as you slide it out. Do you guys do that?<br><br>I did manage to undo the pto shaft housing and slide it back a bit to have a peak. Honestly I can't see much about what is binding up. But it appears the larger gear won't engage with the smaller gear for the hyd pump. I also can't pull the shaft entirely out, it gets hung up on the bushing in the large hyd pump gear.<br><br>Once I get it out, how do you handle this thing? Do you work on it still chained up to the lift? lay it on it's side on a bench?||

Re: PTO clutch|1489632506|atknut|xx||Now that I look at the manual again, it looks like the pto shaft should pull all the way out....<br><br>Oh, and there are shims there behind the housing.<br><br>What am I missing?<br><br>Thanks fellas.||

Re: PTO clutch|1489649852|Diggerdeano|xx||hi the bolts your refering to are one on each side approx 1/3 the way down from the top near the locating pegs(probably full of dirt) if you use do them alternately a couple of turns each, as for the pto you will have to turn it to line up the second set of splines so you can pull it out . i usually just pull the whole lot off in one go and lock the lift arms up and lay it on its back it would sit on the arms and pto then put a block of wood under it so the pto can be turned then take hyd pump off which will then allow you to see whats going on and pull the drive tube off (one with big gear on) . check the splines in the end of the drive tube and on the shaft it goes on to .||

Re: PTO clutch|1489650003|Diggerdeano|xx||keep all the shims do not loose any . ||

Re: PTO clutch|1489650272|rickcobley|xx||Hi, You say that &quot;the shaft gets hung up on the bushing in the big gear!&quot;<br><br>I would say you have a burr on the end of the shaft due to not enough shims being fitted at sometime. Lets see what you find when you finally remove it.<br><br>Regards Rick Cobley||

Re: PTO clutch|1489672841|atknut|xx||That's what I was thinking, but it seems to be the hyd gears that won't engage.<br><br>I'll post some pics when I get it all apart.<br><br>Thanks.||

Re: PTO clutch|1489878889|atknut|xx||Ok, I got the Hyd unit off an now I have more questions.<br><br>1. I notice there is a gasket. Can I still get one? Or can I use some silicone or some other loctite type goo on it instead?<br>2. Once I had it off and on my bench (laying on it's back) it started to shift fine. Not sure why.<br>3. Should the hyd pump gears always be engaged? (the big and small one, not the shaft) It seems when the shaft is backed off, they are still engaged by about 1/4"<br>4. The inner slots on the tube, and the lower slots on the shaft are kinda worn (pictures attached). I'm not sure how bad that they need replacement? Is that even parts wise?<br><br><br> Zm3BmZbEqdy28YXA7 ... 942|atknut

Re: PTO clutch|1489888398|atknut|xx||Now that I think about it more, I am convince that it is the clutch that is stuck. As soon as I separate the hyd unit from the tractor, it shifted with no issues. If the clutch was stuck, while running it would never disengage and go in. Even when stopped, most likely the splines would not line up. Once I get it all cleaned up, I will test my theory by turning the crank by hand and trying to engage.<br><br>It's a great exercise though taking it apart. Gives me a chance to see how it really works and I can clean the hyd strainer.<br><br>Let me know what you fellas think about that shaft and tube though. I'm worried about how difficult it might be to find one.|1489888917|atknut

Re: PTO clutch|1489908610|Nuffield1060|xx||The shaft and tube look fine, clear away any burs and it will give no problems for the next years. Use the search function on this forum and you will find shafts that are way more damaged as yours. If the damage is really bad, you could always give it a shot and build it up with welding.||

Re: PTO clutch|1489911213|Diggerdeano|xx||hi all looks rather nice no major wear by looks of it , silicone will be fine the gaskets are done away with on marshalls , while its apart just have a good look at the gears for any chipped teeth etc and clear any crap from under the big bull gears where the drain plugs are clean your filter and just check all pipes are tight etc . can you turn the shaft and hyd pump by hand if the pump is well worn it will turn very easy but if your pump is good it should be hard to turn by hand . ive found those veg oil filter socks very handy for filtering oil before it goes back in the gearbox , ||

Re: PTO clutch|1489911226|rickcobley|xx||Hi, Yes it is correct that the pump gear and the one on the tube are always in contact. <br><br>The process of engagement is the the first notch of the the quadrant puts the tube over the drive stub on the rear of the gearbox and makes the hydraulics work.<br><br>Moving the lever fully to the rear of the quadrant puts the second set of teeth up the drive tube over the teeth on the pto shaft thus completing the drive to pto implements.<br><br>Gaskets are still available in the UK from Charnleys but towards the end of production Leyland switched to Loctite 510 which is what most people use nowadays!<br><br>Regards Rick Cobley||

Re: PTO clutch|1490236038|atknut|xx||Ok, I almost got her back together. I got all the sludge out, cleaned the filter(screen) freed up all the controls. Since I was on my own today, I couldn't lift the unit back on, so I started looking at the clutch linkage. I'm sure I read somewhere that I want 2&quot; of free play on the handle...I have more like 6. And I don't think I can get any more adjustment out of it unless I take the locknut off.<br><br>Any advice?<br><br>Also, I was looking at the method of &quot;popping&quot; the clutch loose at the inspection cover, but I can't even see where to get a screwdriver near the friction plate.<br><br>Any ideas on that one?<br><br>Thanks fellas!||

Re: PTO clutch|1490256215|rickcobley|xx||Hi, You can pop the clutch lose with a screwdriver on a Nuffield but thats the transmission plate. I am not aware of any such fix on the Leyland.<br><br>You need a engine crane to lift the hydraulics back on or you will injure your selves!<br><br>Regards Rick Cobley||

Re: PTO clutch|1490273993|atknut|xx||Great! That's what I figured. <br><br>I got a crane all lined up<br><br>Any ideas on the clutch adjustment? - maybe just worn out.||

Re: PTO clutch|1490300950|rickcobley|xx||Sorry no ideas on that!||


Re: PTO clutch|1490302764|Diggerdeano|xx||if you get the hyds in gear and working try pulling the pto clutch back and operate the auxillary with nothing attached the sudden pressure build up might free it off if your lucky but remember only do it a few times then let it rest so your pto bearing doesnt get too hot . bear in mind while doing this if everything suddenly stops working it could be because its freed off so release the clutch and it should work .<br>||

Re: PTO clutch|1490327251|atknut|xx||Ok, thanks! I'll try that. I got the hyd unit back on today, and slowly rolling the engine over....&quot;pop&quot; she goes into hyd and pto gear easily.<br><br>So definitely more confident that it's the clutch sticking.<br><br>Like I say though, definitely worth taking apart. It was nasty in there.||

Re: PTO clutch|1490490698|atknut|xx||SUCESS! well, sort of.<br><br>The PTO and the 3 point work well. The clutch is still stuck though, so I'll have to try to get some rototilling or something done to try to free it up.<br><br>Although, I've now noted another issue. Now that I have nice clean oil in there and not a thick sludgy white goo, I have a pretty steady oil drip coming out of the "drain holes" under the clutch pack. I'm assuming maybe there's a seal problem on the input of the transmission?<br><br>Am I going to have to take the clutch out?<br><br>It looks to me to be too much of a drip to leave it.<br><br>Thanks.<br><br>Edit: I forgot to mention. This happens mostly when it's running. It stops dripping after 10-20min after shutdown.|1490497842|atknut

Re: PTO clutch|1490519418|Bonjour|xx||Sounds like seals on the input shaft housing. Do a search on here for &quot;pussy cat&quot; and you'll find some pictures and earlier discussions on this.

Strange search words but the housing is shaped a little like a sitting cat <br><br>Regards,<br><br><br>Bill.||

Re: PTO clutch|1490526926|jmcd|xx||Hi,<br><br>I don't what to hijack the topic but I see lots of helpful respondents here. I've a split internal hydraulic cylinder when I take off and look under the lift arm part of the back end. So the whole back end has to come off? I was trying to divide and conquer and take out the pto shaft. I've removed the 4 protruding nuts and two recessed bolts. When the pto is engaged it's not possible to pull the shaft and housing out at all. When disengaged I can pull it out about 1 cm and no further. Does the PTO shaft come out at all. Diggerdeano mentioned &quot;as for the pto you will have to turn it to line up the second set of splines so you can pull it out&quot; I also have a pickup hitch frame bolted to the bottom of the &quot;tombstone&quot; Am I being completely ridiculous thinking that I'll be able to remove the tombstone without taking the frame off completely. Any help appreciated. Thanks John.||

Re: PTO clutch|1490543137|atknut|xx||Ok, so I think I know what I'm looking at. Since it only leaks while running, my guess is that it's the seal shown in this pic:<br><br> FExrMVKxFfaYHsqc8<br><br>Circled in red. Or possibly the o-ring sitting on the splines (if it has it). <br><br>I say this, because I'm convinced that the oil level is not that high, correct? I'm assuming the oil travels up the gears while running an lubricates the bearings an the inside of my clutch housing.<br><br>Does that sound about right?<br><br>My only decision now is to decide how much oil is leaking an is it worth the effort. Although it would be an opportunity to free up that stuck pto clutch right? <br><br>Man, this thing is going to completely consume all of my free time for the forseeable future ;P| 1490543763|atknut

Re: PTO clutch|1490554603|Diggerdeano|xx|| the oil might well end up on the clutch plates meaning more parts it you leave it too long and youll need more oil too, do it all together clutch and both seals and any little bushes its not worth messing about do it right do it once .||

Re: PTO clutch|1490555390|Diggerdeano|xx||jmcd you will have to drop the hitch frame offcompletely it makes reassembly easier as your not fighting the frame work , the tombestone housing does not require the pto turning to remove it the pto however does need turning to align the splines if your pulling it out of the housing its been awhile since i pulled a pto out but im fairly sure you should pull it an inch or so then turn it till the spline line up and it should then come out , make sure you keep the shims from behind the pto bearing housing dont loose any. ||


Re: PTO clutch|1490561562|powershaft|xx||HY, Not to sure if some one has mentioned there is a small seal on the back of the pto gear,this is the seal for the transmission input shaft,olso if there is a lot of wear on the splines on the coupling or the pto gear the oil can escape down those.||

Re: PTO clutch|1490561864|atknut|xx||Here's how much oil I'm talking about:<br><br>https://<br><br>It starts after about 5 min of running, after running, it stops in about the same amount of time.<br><br>Edit: Found the leak:<br> LQ4sVrNr39QeKSCUA ... Definitely the top seal in the "cat".|1490574621|atknut

Re: PTO clutch|1490593064|Diggerdeano|xx||Your biggest problem will be oil on the clutch once this happens it clutch out time your only putting off doing it by leaving it and if your clutch plates are good and still lots of material on them the oil will ruin them .||

Re: PTO clutch|1490671194|atknut|xx||Yes, she's coming apart. It's a good opportunity to look at the clutch too.<br><br> that I almost have it apart, where am I going to be able to find parts? For a start, I'm thinking I'll need a new seal, o ring, possibly bearing, release mechanism bushings...maybe more.<br><br>Is there a list of sizes somewhere where I can go to a bearing shop and get them? <br><br>Do I need to make an order and ship from England?<br><br>Thanks.||

Re: PTO clutch|1490676331|powershaft|xx||Any good bearing shop should be able to sort you out,only thing i,d be careful about is the quality of the seals you get some are pretty pathetic.||

Re: PTO clutch|1490689244|Diggerdeano|xx||Like powershaft has said a good bearing stockist should sort most of the parts out but dont go for cheap chinese or polish sorry to any polish people no offence but junk is junk buy quality parts the relaese bearing carrier bushes might pose an issue but i think vapourmatic do then and being as john deere own them you should be ok they are only bronze bushes .||

Re: PTO clutch|1490832089|atknut|xx||Ok...clutch is out. Here's what I'm looking at:<br><br><br><br>It's hard to tell, but I suspect the seal and the o-ring. Question: how much play should be in the outer shaft bearing? I can feel a little bit. Looks good, feels smooth.<br><br>Is it possible to pick out the o-ring without taking the cover off?<br><br>Also, the main release bearing does not feel good. It looks like it needs to press apart?<br><br>Thanks.||

Re: PTO clutch|1490850970|powershaft|xx||From the picture it looks to me you have some wear on the splines,what are the splines inside the coupling like.The seal and &quot;o&quot;ring can be removed without the housing having to come of,as for the other seal at the other end of the pto input shaft, you would be better draining the gearbox and remove the housing and then the top pto shaft and bearings,take them with you to a bearing stockist and ask them to check them for you,if your not sure. The main thrust bearing housing knocks apart,there is a bearing inside i have cleaned them and repacked it with new grease,i think Rick put a thread up about fitting a grease nipple to it.||

Re: PTO clutch|1490891819|atknut|xx||Ok...Thanks!<br><br>Just to be clear, in this diagram:<br><br><br><br>I'm looking at 30 and 31, but is the seal you're talking about 52? Is that sitting behind the large housing (15)? <br><br>So I need to take the cover, and the housing off? Why is there a seal there? Isn't the pto gear case filled with oil from the tranny too?||

Re: PTO clutch|1490906181|Diggerdeano|xx||the other seal goes into the smaller pto drive gear its a thin lip seal .||

Re: PTO clutch|1490906288|Diggerdeano|xx||59 on your picture , its a bit hard to distinguish||

Re: PTO clutch|1490906511|powershaft|xx||No its no.39,its between pto input shaft and the bearing,its to stop the oil getting down the inside of the pto shaft.It,s not very big,that,s why I think its important to have good bearing,s on the pto shaft,it does not take much for it to start wobbling then it can leak,it actually runs on the gearbox input shaft no. 33.||

Re: PTO clutch|1490910443|Diggerdeano|xx||its not easy to make out looked liked 59 to me || Re: PTO clutch|1490935436|powershaft|xx||you could be right ,mine is only a guess.||

Re: PTO clutch|1491010523|atknut|xx||Thanks Fellas.<br><br>Getting there. I got the PTO gearbox cover off. Any tips for taking the bearing off of the large gear? doesn't look like a puller will fit in there very easily with the release shafts in place.||

Re: PTO clutch|1491021996|powershaft|xx||Think I usually use a chisel with a thin wedge on it and just work it from opposites each time, slow and steady between bearing and gear,hope that makes sense.||

Re: PTO clutch|1491070392|atknut|xx||Ok, I got the bearing off and it's down to this point:<br><br><br><br>And so far, I'm seeing the big seal an little seal:<br><br><br><br>(one in the housing an one in the end of the shaft)<br><br>The question is, where is the o-ring? Do I need to take the main case off to find that?<br><br>Did mine not have one?<br><br>The only thing I can figure is that it's supposed to be here (marked in red):<br><br><br><br>If that's the case, then mine definitely didn't have one. What size would it need? Can I just pick one that fits out of the old o-ring kit? <br><br>Thanks.|1491071171|atknut

Re: PTO clutch|1491077576|powershaft|xx||I dont know for sure when they where fitted,but yes that is where it is fitted,you dont need a brute of one, just enough to cover the height of the splines,any chance of a better picture of the splines on the gear and inside the coupling.||

Re: PTO clutch|1491083214|tractordoctor|xx||part no 83H 893 if you need it, don't know the size<br><br>Robin.||

Re: PTO clutch|1491102391|atknut|xx||Ok...thanks. I think I read on here somewhere that standard &quot;132&quot; o-ring size would work also?||

Re: PTO clutch|1491195718|powershaft|xx||posted a reply on the 1st april but it has not came up on board,its showing on the summary board,anyway was looking to see if you had a photo of the splines on the pto gear and the inside of the coupling that fits on there. ||

Re: PTO clutch|1491226496|atknut|xx||No, I haven't taken those yet. I will try this evening. <br><br>Got sidetracked on the weekend working on motorcycles page6image18648||

Re: PTO clutch|1491359797|atknut|xx||
powershaft wrote:
posted a reply on the 1st april but it has not came up on board,its showing on the summary board,anyway was looking to see if you had a photo of the splines on the pto gear and the inside of the coupling that fits on there.
<br><br>Here they are:<br> ... r><br>That last one is the worst of them and is part 9 in this diagram:<br>||

Re: PTO clutch|1491366996|powershaft|xx||Sorry Henry, I was only refering to the fine splines on the pto input shaft and coupling although the others looked ok,the splines on the inside of part no 9 do look wore,I cant really see the input gear splines so plain,any chance of a photo looking down them,not directly above but at an angle,if you are getting any movement on them when they are assembled I personally would be worried about getting a good seal,evan with an &quot;o&quot;ring in place, of course this depends on if you are going to do much pto work,and how much power you would be using.||

Re: PTO clutch|1491424495|rickcobley|xx||Hi, Part 9 the drive flange is available new. I would replace your worn one.<br><br>Regards Rick Cobley||

Re: PTO clutch|1491446439|atknut|xx||Ok, I'll try to get some more pics of the splines.<br><br>In the mean time, how do you recommend to get the release (throwout) bearing apart without a shop press? <br><br>Or should I find a press somewhere?||

Re: PTO clutch|1491452217|powershaft|xx||I only ever used a hammer and something blunt and working my way round bit by bit drive it apart&quot;we never had a press&quot;,but the choice is yours.||

Re: PTO clutch|1491465263|Diggerdeano|xx|| hello we used to just work our way around the release bearing with a hammer tapping the flange till it came off just dont hit it too hard so you dont damage it they are just a nice fit and should more or less just push back together by hand ||

Re: PTO clutch|1491879250|atknut|xx||ok, question for you fellas.<br><br>The leyland ATJ2122, it looks like it's 1.5&quot; od, what is the id? closest I can figure is 1.25&quot;. The closest fit would be an SKF 12330:<br><br> ... <br><br>am I right?<br><br>Thanks.||

Re: PTO clutch|1491883815|powershaft|xx||Sorry cant help you with that,I dont have any old parts that I could measure and compare,but my own personal experiance of nearest will do,does not always work. ||

Re: PTO clutch|1492388169|atknut|xx||Sooooo, is this my anti-rotation pin?<br><br>https:// ... <br><br>or what's left of it? <br><br>I'm guessing I need a new one.<br>||

Re: PTO clutch|1492412381|Diggerdeano|xx||hi thats the anti rotation peg ,the thin end should protrude on the inside of the tube so it runs in the guide slot on the pto thrust bearing support tube .||

Re: PTO clutch|1493562124|atknut|xx||Ok, I finally have all the pieces to re-fit everything back together (I think), including a new flange.<br><br>Question: When putting the clutch assembly back together, is there any lube required on the splines, or anti rotation pin/tubes? or does everything go back together dry? <br><br>Thanks.||

Re: PTO clutch|1493575907|canadaguy|xx||Hi others will most likely say clean and dry but i always rebuild these things with white grease it never hurts to give a little protection against rust or wear. i think i was born with a tube of white grease in my hand . i am a firm believer in it just my 2 cent worth. mike||

Re: PTO clutch|1493580443|Diggerdeano|xx||a little smear of grease is plenty .||

Re: PTO clutch|1494423550|atknut|xx||Big news. I put it all back together and fired her up with the clutch cover loosly fitted. Idled for 10-15min and had a look under the cover.....No leaks! Hurray!<br><br>But I do have one last question, is the release bearing supposed to pivot freely on the fork? I installed new bushes and it seems kind of tight, it takes a bit of force to get it to swing. I have the feeling once I push the clutch it will just find it's happy spot and never move again.<br><br>Again, thanks for all the help fellas!||

Re: PTO clutch|1494439946|rickcobley|xx||Hi, The beveled washers stop it flopping about and as you say it finds its happy spot.<br><br>Regards Rick Cobley||

Re: PTO clutch|1496169332|atknut|xx||Update....I just thought I'd fill you guys in on my progress.....<br><br>Thanks to all of the help here, it's running! I was able to get everything back together and no leaks! Buttoned it up and PTO and hyd works perfect. I even hooked up the old hay mower and she mowed no problem! I even managed to find an old tonneau cover for a roof for hay time.<br><br>https://<br><br>Thanks so much for the help!||